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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics own podcast

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episode number 602 for the 26th of April

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2020 which it Saunders coming to you

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from Sydney Australia with my special

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guest co-host this week all the way from

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malmö in Sweden the one and only POTUS

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Bergman hello pontus hello Richard good

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to be back it's almost like you're in

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the studio with me because of course

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we're looking at each other through the

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magic of bright international video

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meetings which everybody's doing these

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days mm-hmm

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yes yeah everybody's getting to use

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these tools now yeah but it's working

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very well I must say it's working us

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well almost no lag at all now you're one

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of the co-hosts of course normally

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you're one of the co-hosts of the

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European skeptics podcast that's been

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going forward two three four five how

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many years now four and a half years

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okay yeah so it's been a while there I

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remember when you started I don't it's

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so much a part of my daily routine now

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to collect stories during the week and

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then check with Andrews and Elena and

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sometimes we have other guest hosts and

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just to prepare so I'm constantly I

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would probably still do that even if we

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if the show was canceled I was still

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goodbye just the habits collect all

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these stories yeah it's interesting and

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I can tell you I've done this show for

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coming up to 12 years and now I can't

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imagine not doing it every yeah that's

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right it's right one of those things I

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get to talk to all sorts of fabulous

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people like your good self now of course

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I love the the European skeptics podcast

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because she has decoys off the ESP the

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real ESP experience that's a great name

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Italian name no it was under US idea we

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we were brainstorming about idea about

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cool names for the show etc and then he

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said well why not just the the European

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skeptics podcast that's boring it sounds

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well it's to the point and at the

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abbreviation is the ESP and then ah yeah

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that's right we'll do that

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that works pretty well they tell me

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about your theme music the the

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about going to Pluto who is that from

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now that was created by a lady called

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Keisha J gray on a one of those Tama

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meetings a long time ago together with

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your Rob and it was called the skeptic

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song by James Randi and it was perfect

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so we we we contacted them both George

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and Keisha and said can we use it for

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our show because it's perfect and it's

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not widely known it's never been

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released anywhere it was just a local

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recording done for that conference right

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right now it's great I love it it's an I

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like as listeners of the skeptic zonal

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now I I like themes and theme tunes

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because when you hear for example when

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you'll hear later on in the show mandala

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noble for example you hear her theme

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music or Michelle because my answer

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theme music and people it puts them in

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that frame of mind oh now I'm going to

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hear this personal now I'm going to hear

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that and whenever I listen to the ESP of

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course what do I hear first

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I hear that music and I know what's

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coming up it's really good right yeah

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yeah and that's probably almost the only

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place you can hear it because it's never

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been released as I said now before we

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talk about what's coming up on this

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week's episode of the skeptic zone and

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it's a pretty packed episode this week

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many people many people here in

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Australia because of the news coverage

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have had a very I guess I'd have to say

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negative opinion of what's happening in

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Sweden at the moment because here in

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Australia there's social distancing lots

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of things a shot you can't go to the pub

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or a restaurant or a movie or anything

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like that

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but I understand the situation in Sweden

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is very different maybe you can fill us

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in yeah it is different and Sweden

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hasn't gone down into lockdown mode

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where there are strong recommendations

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of what to do and not to do but compared

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to other countries it's very very few

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absolute rules and it's been criticized

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very much now

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you know everybody's an expert on the

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internet and everybody's wondering what

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are we doing is a very irresponsible dot

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yada yadi and it is always difficult and

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as a skeptic we should

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remember that things are always much

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more complicated than they seem and

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Sweden is different in many respects but

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mostly because health care and other

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things as well but in this case health

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care is not run by by politicians at all

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it's very much run by appointed experts

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not the government so there are there

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are very strong rules in Sweden or for

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how what a minister can do in directing

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a local authority so they have a lot of

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freedom and hopefully they are driven by

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experts that the near the health care

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system and as a skeptic I I support that

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let's keep let's keep the presidents and

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prime ministers and these people out of

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health care advice I just read this

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headline this morning from the Guardian

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and it says quote Trump hailed bleach

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cure after lobbying by quack medicine

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fraudster and quote yeah we you don't

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want that so so because experts are in

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charge of the situation in Sweden I

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think it leads to a different approach

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it's much more long-term I think than in

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other places if you compare with the

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other Scandinavian countries they have

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gone much more into full lockdown mode

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and so far they have contained they're

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spread much more than Sweden and Sweden

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has and certainly they report fewer

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deaths from kovat 19 so that seems to

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indicate that they are doing something

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right and we are doing something wrong

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but now they're struggling under the

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burden of the lockdown and they're

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preparing to relax the rules because

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their societies can't handle the

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lockdown really people are suffering

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from that and I think what we know is

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that a vaccine is very far in the future

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and the Swedish health authorities seem

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to have the approach that it's

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unavoidable that the pandemic will run

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its course and the only way to handle it

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is to walk a very difficult balance you

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can't avoid the disease but you must

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manage it so that the hospitals are not

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above there

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Oh pasty it's tough isn't it it's a real

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tight robe

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yes hey I don't know if the Swedish

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strategy is good I'm not the expert and

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and maybe people are dying sooner than

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they had to and that's really bad if so

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on the other hand I'm looking at Denmark

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now and what building what will happen

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down there when they are forced to open

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up and nobody there has been in contact

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with the virus if we look at Stockholm

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it's estimated at around 20% already

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have had the disease and some experts

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say that if you reach 60% you achieve

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herd immunity and and then the disease

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starts to fade out maybe we will get

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there and then again today I saw new

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stories that maybe you don't get

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immunity from having the disease and

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then then we're really doing the wrong

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thing so but anyway the experts are in

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charge in Sweden and I prefer that from

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the politicians and if people hear that

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Sweden is not taking this seriously and

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that its policies are driven by

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incompetent people I strongly disagree

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they may have maybe it will turn out

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that they have the wrong strategy but

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they are very competent and they're

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working very hard in a difficult

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situation where a lot of things are

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still unknown of course yeah

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oh absolutely and we're all gonna have

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to wait weeks or months to really get a

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good understanding about how this is

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going to impact different countries

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around the world with the different

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policies and whatever I'm pleased to say

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the situation in Australia is looking

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very positive and as they say we are

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very much flattening the curve well I

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can only say pondus we wish Sweden all

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the best I mean we wish all the

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countries all the best in this earth at

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ridiculous situation but let's look at

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what's coming up on this week's episode

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of the skeptic zone and talking about oh

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yeah talking about coronavirus well

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oddly enough coronavirus it gets a

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mention a couple of times in this week's

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episode of ripped yeah we're going to

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have an interview with Mick West the

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author of a fabulous book called

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escaping the rabbit hole and he's a

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podcaster - he does the tales from the

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rabbit hole

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Podcast he's going to be talking to us

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about all sorts of conspiracy theories

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which is his area of expertise and we

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discuss a bizarre poster that's been

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appearing around Sydney about

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geoengineering and contrails and famine

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and all sorts of terrible thought it's

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amazing how all these conspiracy

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theories suddenly combine into one big

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one when really is happening yeah it

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really is it's just crazy

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and I gotta feel sorry for the the

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chemtrail conspiracy theory people at

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the moment cuz there's hardly any

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chemtrails or anything no because

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there's no that's right following that

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it's the diet skeptic mandolin herbal

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she's going to tell us or report to us

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about the various wellness gurus trying

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to take advantage of the current

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situation peddling all sorts of

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craziness and the good news is of course

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that Pete Evans the local wellness guru

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has been fined by the government for

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peddling something called the bio

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charger which is a something like

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fifteen thousand dollar box of lights

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and tricks you have seen that machine on

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pictures online looks very impressive

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and something be a cross between a fax

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machine or a Dalek something it's my

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impression exactly it's like it's like a

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fax machine and a Dalek I love that

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that's great for though for those

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younger people listening to the show a

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fax machine was something we used to use

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way back and then following that it's

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our regular segment with Michelle

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Vickers ma logical fallacies this week

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Michelle's going to be looking at appeal

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to nature it's natural it's wonderful it

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must be good one of my favorite

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fallacies absolutely yeah then to round

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off the shows and news from the Center

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for inquiry with a newsletter they put

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out about homeopathy and why they think

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the government should take a stronger

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stand against people peddling homeopathy

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now pondus you're going to join me at

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the end of the show we've got some more

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things to discuss yeah okay Richard but

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now I have to run upstairs

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because I'm recording in the basement

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and I will have some Swedish pancakes

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with cloudberry Jam mmm that sounds

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pretty good

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well okay while you do that they're

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going to enjoy the skipping zone

276
00:12:05,960 --> 00:11:52,320
[Music]

277
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:05,970
and joining me now on the line all the

278
00:12:10,910 --> 00:12:08,250
way from beautiful Sacramento California

279
00:12:11,860 --> 00:12:10,920
it's the author and podcaster Mick West

280
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:11,870
hello Mick

281
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:14,730
no I'm Richard hello good to talk with

282
00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:17,760
you I I'm I'm half envious because you

283
00:12:22,370 --> 00:12:19,230
know I spent a lot of time in California

284
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:22,380
but that sort of come to a bit of a stop

285
00:12:26,420 --> 00:12:24,210
at the moment just for our listeners

286
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:26,430
sake around the world what's the

287
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:29,730
situation like with the pandemic where

288
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:32,850
you are well where I am is actually in a

289
00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:36,330
very fairly rural area and I live in a

290
00:12:39,740 --> 00:12:38,100
county called El Dorado County and

291
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:39,750
they're actually petitioning the

292
00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:41,610
governors are open up the county again

293
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,800
because they have so few cases here I

294
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:45,600
think we have something like 20 cases in

295
00:12:50,300 --> 00:12:48,240
the entire county so I pretty lucky I'm

296
00:12:51,980 --> 00:12:50,310
kind of like isolated in my house and

297
00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:51,990
just kind of doing the things I would

298
00:12:56,390 --> 00:12:54,150
normally be doing without without going

299
00:12:58,760 --> 00:12:56,400
out too much so not too bad

300
00:13:00,920 --> 00:12:58,770
thankfully I guess that's a similar

301
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:00,930
situation where I am in Sydney Australia

302
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:04,170
it's not too bad I mean the but the bad

303
00:13:08,180 --> 00:13:06,690
part is of course the people there have

304
00:13:10,610 --> 00:13:08,190
certain people who are suffering and

305
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:10,620
we've had some deaths in Australia under

306
00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:13,290
a hundred so far I'm pleased to say but

307
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:15,180
the general society is suffering of

308
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:17,130
course because of the unemployment and

309
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:20,850
the restrictions yeah and you don't

310
00:13:26,510 --> 00:13:22,770
that's something I think is gonna take a

311
00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:26,520
while to really hit round here because

312
00:13:30,580 --> 00:13:28,230
everything is just kind of I think the

313
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:30,590
momentum is carrying people forward and

314
00:13:34,820 --> 00:13:33,210
they don't really realize the economic

315
00:13:36,740 --> 00:13:34,830
impact that's that's happening I think

316
00:13:38,660 --> 00:13:36,750
it probably happens more to people in

317
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:38,670
the in the cities but around here it's

318
00:13:42,890 --> 00:13:40,410
kind of weird like things seemed to be

319
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:42,900
going along more or less as normal with

320
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:46,170
a bit more social distancing and you

321
00:13:50,180 --> 00:13:48,690
know we'll see what happens I heard the

322
00:13:52,180 --> 00:13:50,190
price of oil drops into negative

323
00:13:54,850 --> 00:13:52,190
territory today so

324
00:13:56,650 --> 00:13:54,860
be very interesting yes I heard that -

325
00:13:58,300 --> 00:13:56,660
maybe you'll turn up at the gas station

326
00:14:01,360 --> 00:13:58,310
and they'll be you'll fill up and

327
00:14:04,930 --> 00:14:01,370
they'll give you $20 that's certainly

328
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:04,940
what I would hope for now you have been

329
00:14:10,269 --> 00:14:08,480
doing me the podcast tales from the

330
00:14:11,980 --> 00:14:10,279
rabbit hole which we play promotions for

331
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:11,990
quite regularly on the sceptic zone for

332
00:14:16,509 --> 00:14:14,689
some years now less than a year actually

333
00:14:19,420 --> 00:14:16,519
it's been about I think about 18 nine

334
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:19,430
months really okay that's interesting it

335
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:21,050
because there are so many episodes I

336
00:14:26,110 --> 00:14:23,170
assumed has been going for longer I

337
00:14:28,269 --> 00:14:26,120
tried to do one a week and I was doing

338
00:14:30,699 --> 00:14:28,279
pretty much one a week up until the

339
00:14:32,410 --> 00:14:30,709
coronavirus stuff kind of hit and that

340
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:32,420
kind of distracted me for a while so

341
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:34,490
I've only managed to get one episode out

342
00:14:37,540 --> 00:14:36,290
over the last month but before that I

343
00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:37,550
was doing them a lot more frequently

344
00:14:41,499 --> 00:14:39,649
right and hopefully I can get back to

345
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:41,509
doing that again in the future yes it's

346
00:14:46,090 --> 00:14:44,480
a very it's a slow interesting

347
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:46,100
conversation you have with various

348
00:14:51,819 --> 00:14:49,610
people who are conspiracy theorists or

349
00:14:53,769 --> 00:14:51,829
former conspiracy theorists such as very

350
00:14:55,749 --> 00:14:53,779
interesting and the latest episode you

351
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:55,759
have you spend an hour chatting to a

352
00:15:00,850 --> 00:14:59,360
woman who is a flat earther and the

353
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:00,860
conversation drifts into what her

354
00:15:06,999 --> 00:15:04,250
opinion is of the current pandemic now

355
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:07,009
let's talk about that are you in in your

356
00:15:10,689 --> 00:15:08,930
research and you're looking around the

357
00:15:12,759 --> 00:15:10,699
internet are you seeing a lot of

358
00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:12,769
conspiracy theories now bubble up with

359
00:15:17,170 --> 00:15:13,910
the pandemic

360
00:15:19,689 --> 00:15:17,180
oh yeah certainly you know obviously

361
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:19,699
this you've probably seen the ones that

362
00:15:25,150 --> 00:15:22,910
are in the paper like the the 5g thing

363
00:15:27,999 --> 00:15:25,160
like people saying that 5g radiation

364
00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:28,009
caused the pandemic but there's some

365
00:15:32,670 --> 00:15:29,839
other kind of interesting ones that have

366
00:15:37,079 --> 00:15:32,680
been coming along like this one about

367
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:37,089
Bill Gates and quantum dot vaccines

368
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:40,880
which is kind of this weird thing where

369
00:15:44,530 --> 00:15:43,040
it's kind of like ties together the mark

370
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:44,540
of the beast and the New World Order

371
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:46,730
well and yet it's actually a fairly in a

372
00:15:51,790 --> 00:15:49,490
way mainstream conspiracy it's this

373
00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:51,800
someone found this this science paper

374
00:15:55,689 --> 00:15:54,230
that someone had written where they were

375
00:15:57,850 --> 00:15:55,699
trying to solve a problem with with

376
00:15:59,379 --> 00:15:57,860
vaccines in developing countries where

377
00:16:01,480 --> 00:15:59,389
is if they don't have good medical

378
00:16:03,699 --> 00:16:01,490
records so they thought it's like what

379
00:16:06,070 --> 00:16:03,709
we'll do is when we give someone a

380
00:16:08,980 --> 00:16:06,080
vaccine we'll give them an invisible ink

381
00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:08,990
along with the vaccine so we'll be able

382
00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:10,790
to tell which vaccines they have but

383
00:16:15,490 --> 00:16:12,350
different vaccines would have different

384
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:15,500
different marks and of course they think

385
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:18,370
that this is the mark of the beast and

386
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,880
now this then ties into the corona virus

387
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:24,320
thing because they think they're going

388
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:27,890
to implant everybody with these quantum

389
00:16:31,060 --> 00:16:29,600
dot microchips even though they're not

390
00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:31,070
really microchips so they could track

391
00:16:36,190 --> 00:16:34,910
everybody for contacts tracing with the

392
00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:36,200
virus they think they're going to use

393
00:16:40,569 --> 00:16:38,089
this as an excuse to get everybody

394
00:16:41,579 --> 00:16:40,579
hooked up with these mark of the mark of

395
00:16:46,449 --> 00:16:41,589
the beast'

396
00:16:49,449 --> 00:16:46,459
corona virus tracking ID things so yeah

397
00:16:51,790 --> 00:16:49,459
it's it's I think all the old conspiracy

398
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:51,800
theories are being kind of pressured by

399
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:53,810
this by the by the corona virus

400
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:56,690
situation and it's kind of like shifting

401
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,880
some things and it's kind of side

402
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:01,040
lighting some things as well it's

403
00:17:05,710 --> 00:17:03,470
interesting because we've seen here in

404
00:17:07,540 --> 00:17:05,720
this country how people who are

405
00:17:09,699 --> 00:17:07,550
traditionally into conspiracy theories

406
00:17:13,449 --> 00:17:09,709
like the anti-vaxxers for example I

407
00:17:15,159 --> 00:17:13,459
certainly come on board and many of them

408
00:17:17,949 --> 00:17:15,169
are of the opinion that there's no

409
00:17:19,299 --> 00:17:17,959
pandemic and people aren't really going

410
00:17:20,679 --> 00:17:19,309
in the hospitals I'm just wondering when

411
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:20,689
we're going to see people saying that

412
00:17:24,790 --> 00:17:22,970
all the people in New York are actors

413
00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:24,800
you know they're just lined up paid

414
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:27,130
actors to dress in surgical gowns or

415
00:17:29,610 --> 00:17:29,210
pretend to be dead or something like

416
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:29,620
that

417
00:17:36,340 --> 00:17:34,130
already there was a there's a kind of a

418
00:17:38,530 --> 00:17:36,350
Twitter movement which was a hashtag

419
00:17:41,740 --> 00:17:38,540
filming or hospital when they were

420
00:17:42,909 --> 00:17:41,750
encouraging people to go and to the

421
00:17:45,549 --> 00:17:42,919
hospitals that they're showing on the

422
00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:45,559
news and try to see if what they showed

423
00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:47,390
on the news is what's actually happening

424
00:17:51,340 --> 00:17:49,550
so they would go to a hospital and then

425
00:17:53,020 --> 00:17:51,350
they would like hear that go there in a

426
00:17:55,390 --> 00:17:53,030
time that there wasn't that many people

427
00:17:58,210 --> 00:17:55,400
standing outside it and then they would

428
00:18:00,850 --> 00:17:58,220
claim that the you know the news reports

429
00:18:04,290 --> 00:18:00,860
were fake so yeah it's definitely

430
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:04,300
there's definitely like an immediate

431
00:18:08,110 --> 00:18:06,650
conspiracy theory along those lines now

432
00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:08,120
you think like the idea of everybody

433
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:11,360
being actors is this extreme conspiracy

434
00:18:15,159 --> 00:18:13,490
theory but you know this type of thing

435
00:18:17,890 --> 00:18:15,169
is actually fairly mainstream now just

436
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:17,900
that all they're saying is that the the

437
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:19,170
media is

438
00:18:25,340 --> 00:18:23,370
jamot izing things a bit too much and so

439
00:18:28,550 --> 00:18:25,350
you know this this kind of yeah there's

440
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:28,560
the spectrums of intensity of all

441
00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:30,930
conspiracy theories and I think the

442
00:18:36,050 --> 00:18:34,350
coronavirus theory is like this I go the

443
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:36,060
theories are going to span the entire

444
00:18:39,950 --> 00:18:37,770
spectrum you can have fairly innocuous

445
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:39,960
things like the media is hyping things

446
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:42,090
up all the way up so it's an entirely

447
00:18:46,220 --> 00:18:44,010
fake thing with everybody's an actor

448
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:46,230
well it's for the conspiracy theorist

449
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:47,850
it's a dream come true it really is I

450
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:50,670
mean it incorporates so much and you're

451
00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:53,120
saying that there's this movement of

452
00:18:57,290 --> 00:18:55,500
people encouraging other people to go

453
00:18:58,970 --> 00:18:57,300
into hospitals and take photographs and

454
00:19:01,880 --> 00:18:58,980
film that happened here in Australia

455
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:01,890
with a noted conspiracy theorist by the

456
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:05,010
name of Meryl Dori putting out publicly

457
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:06,960
that she thought people should go in and

458
00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:08,880
snap pictures in hospitals to make sure

459
00:19:13,490 --> 00:19:11,670
that this was really happening but as I

460
00:19:16,540 --> 00:19:13,500
say it is a dream come true for a lot of

461
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:16,550
conspiracy theorists now one of the

462
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:18,720
other matters I want to talk to you

463
00:19:24,380 --> 00:19:21,090
about is some years ago in Sydney

464
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:24,390
popped up these posters and I'm just

465
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:25,740
moving across here i've got i've

466
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:27,810
actually scored one now actually got one

467
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:29,490
a couple of years ago and i framed it

468
00:19:36,020 --> 00:19:34,260
and then they disappeared it's all it's

469
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:36,030
called weather modification the poster

470
00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:37,740
it's a very dramatic poster and i'll

471
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:40,950
explain it in a minute and it i scored

472
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:42,810
one and then they all just vanished but

473
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:45,450
in the last two weeks over the last week

474
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:48,210
on my rounds of doing my exercise here

475
00:19:53,780 --> 00:19:50,610
in sydney and my regular walks I have

476
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:53,790
come across multitudes of them twice as

477
00:19:58,820 --> 00:19:56,610
big now the one I have is lots roughly a

478
00:20:01,220 --> 00:19:58,830
meter or maybe a meter and a little bit

479
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:01,230
tall in fact what I'll do now is I'll

480
00:20:06,530 --> 00:20:03,690
play a little clip of me walking along

481
00:20:09,170 --> 00:20:06,540
describing them well I'm walking along

482
00:20:13,340 --> 00:20:09,180
near a train station here in Sydney sort

483
00:20:19,220 --> 00:20:17,000
and along the train line which is sort

484
00:20:20,810 --> 00:20:19,230
of among the train line which is said to

485
00:20:22,909 --> 00:20:20,820
build up there's lots of room for

486
00:20:25,610 --> 00:20:22,919
posters advertising all sorts of things

487
00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:25,620
and somebody has come along probably in

488
00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:26,940
the dead of the night I don't know and

489
00:20:34,850 --> 00:20:31,070
slept up lots of these posters which say

490
00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:34,860
the bright post is bright yellow yellow

491
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:38,460
and red black writing there's a huge jet

492
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:40,799
plane with sort of contrails coming up

493
00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:44,570
weather modification it says droughts

494
00:20:51,620 --> 00:20:48,299
melting ice caps and glaciers bee colony

495
00:20:54,830 --> 00:20:51,630
collapse Mastry die offs atmospheric

496
00:20:59,049 --> 00:20:54,840
saturation of methane hmm the extreme

497
00:21:03,169 --> 00:20:59,059
bush fires reduced vitamin D production

498
00:21:07,390 --> 00:21:03,179
sabotage of food supply respiratory

499
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:07,400
illness epidemic how about that epidemic

500
00:21:14,110 --> 00:21:10,650
neurological epidemic neurological

501
00:21:17,690 --> 00:21:14,120
disorders increased UV and skin cancer

502
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:17,700
complete global on the side join the

503
00:21:28,850 --> 00:21:22,970
fight help in this crime ji o

504
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:28,860
engineering watch.org and if i walk

505
00:21:34,820 --> 00:21:31,500
along here beside these this wall on

506
00:21:37,580 --> 00:21:34,830
these posters one two three four five

507
00:21:39,770 --> 00:21:37,590
six I'm guessing they're about thirty

508
00:21:42,590 --> 00:21:39,780
possibly thirty of these posters they're

509
00:21:46,039 --> 00:21:42,600
well over a meter tall it's quite an

510
00:21:49,810 --> 00:21:46,049
undertaking and I imagine I imagine they

511
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:49,820
won't be here for long that was me

512
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:52,740
exploring these posters mickr and of

513
00:21:59,090 --> 00:21:56,370
course the the website mentioned and

514
00:22:02,299 --> 00:21:59,100
that appears to be run by somebody that

515
00:22:05,330 --> 00:22:02,309
you've had dealings with I'm sure Dane

516
00:22:08,899 --> 00:22:05,340
Wigington Dane Wigington is actually

517
00:22:11,180 --> 00:22:08,909
someone I've I've had dealings with I

518
00:22:13,820 --> 00:22:11,190
guess for quite a long time I actually

519
00:22:15,919 --> 00:22:13,830
went to a chemtrails conference Wow

520
00:22:17,899 --> 00:22:15,929
I can't know what it was now it must

521
00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:17,909
have been about ten years ago or so and

522
00:22:21,770 --> 00:22:19,620
he was there he was one of the the

523
00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:21,780
speakers at this conference and he's one

524
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:23,940
of the guys is really organizing this

525
00:22:27,170 --> 00:22:26,250
whole chemtrail movement which he likes

526
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:27,180
to call a Geo

527
00:22:31,490 --> 00:22:28,890
Engineering movement because his theory

528
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:31,500
is that the chemtrails you know that the

529
00:22:35,090 --> 00:22:32,880
lines in the sky which are actually

530
00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:35,100
contrails some kind of secret

531
00:22:40,730 --> 00:22:38,520
geoengineering project which you know

532
00:22:42,530 --> 00:22:40,740
this this poster calls it weather

533
00:22:44,150 --> 00:22:42,540
modification actually isn't

534
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:44,160
geoengineering it's alright

535
00:22:48,350 --> 00:22:45,690
weather modification is a completely

536
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:48,360
different thing weather modification is

537
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:52,170
just cloud seeding and I think the

538
00:22:55,940 --> 00:22:54,000
reason that crops up again if you look

539
00:22:58,430 --> 00:22:55,950
at this the list of things these are all

540
00:23:01,610 --> 00:22:58,440
the old things that they predict sit

541
00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:01,620
back air in around by the year 2000 on

542
00:23:06,650 --> 00:23:04,620
1999 well this whole thing first started

543
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:06,660
there were all these things that they

544
00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:08,400
said that we're going to happen because

545
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:11,790
of the the chemtrails and two of them

546
00:23:18,290 --> 00:23:15,600
the respiratory illness epidemic in the

547
00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:18,300
shortage of food supply are two things

548
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:21,030
that have kind of come true I think

549
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:22,890
they're kind of like let on their

550
00:23:30,050 --> 00:23:26,640
bandwagon of the corona virus pandemic

551
00:23:32,060 --> 00:23:30,060
and they said look we were right the

552
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:32,070
chemtrails are causing this respiratory

553
00:23:36,860 --> 00:23:34,410
illness epidemic and the reason you

554
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:36,870
can't find toilet paper

555
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:40,650
bread is that because of the chemtrails

556
00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:43,830
yes obviously they're trying to draw a

557
00:23:49,130 --> 00:23:47,520
link between the corona virus and the

558
00:23:51,770 --> 00:23:49,140
chemtrails and look at the skull and

559
00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:51,780
crossbones on there as well as it kind

560
00:23:56,510 --> 00:23:55,140
of symbolizes some kind of illness type

561
00:23:58,700 --> 00:23:56,520
thing but I guess they had a ton before

562
00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:58,710
they look at the corona virus yeah these

563
00:24:02,510 --> 00:24:01,080
are old old claims that have been around

564
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:02,520
for a while yeah and it's interesting

565
00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:04,710
too and it makes sort of sense what

566
00:24:08,450 --> 00:24:06,150
you've just said why these could be

567
00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:08,460
coming back now but I also have to

568
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:11,070
wonder that this is not a cheap exercise

569
00:24:16,340 --> 00:24:13,440
I mean these two print hundreds of

570
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,350
posters at this size full-color posters

571
00:24:21,910 --> 00:24:18,240
and then have somebody running around

572
00:24:25,820 --> 00:24:21,920
Sydney putting them up hundreds of them

573
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:25,830
somebody is very dedicated I think yeah

574
00:24:30,290 --> 00:24:28,290
and you know Dane Wigington he's in

575
00:24:33,470 --> 00:24:30,300
California quite close to me actually

576
00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:33,480
but obviously it's not him doing it but

577
00:24:40,590 --> 00:24:36,700
he is a guy who made a bunch of money in

578
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:40,600
real estate and building houses and he

579
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:43,120
kind of retired to Northern California

580
00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:45,250
and he bought a big big like 200 acre

581
00:24:49,289 --> 00:24:47,830
property up there after he moved up

582
00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:49,299
there he started seeing contrails

583
00:24:52,110 --> 00:24:50,620
because where he lived before there

584
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:52,120
weren't that many planes going overhead

585
00:24:56,130 --> 00:24:54,640
the weather was a bit different and he

586
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:56,140
moved to California right under a flight

587
00:25:00,060 --> 00:24:57,730
path and he saw these contrails and he

588
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:00,070
became convinced so you got this guy

589
00:25:03,630 --> 00:25:01,690
who's cannon is fairly well off he's

590
00:25:06,990 --> 00:25:03,640
retired and he's convinced that

591
00:25:10,020 --> 00:25:07,000
chemtrails are real so he he spends

592
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:10,030
quite a bit of his own money in in

593
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:12,910
promoting this type of thing he will fun

594
00:25:17,789 --> 00:25:16,480
things like billboards by the by the

595
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:17,799
side of the road you know there's big

596
00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:19,929
advertising billboards is that there's

597
00:25:26,190 --> 00:25:23,020
actually a few of those and you know he

598
00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:26,200
funds things like this and it's probably

599
00:25:32,430 --> 00:25:30,910
someone he is similarly well-off you

600
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:32,440
know not particularly well-off but no

601
00:25:36,750 --> 00:25:33,730
just someone who's retired he was like a

602
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:36,760
little bit of money who can who's who's

603
00:25:41,010 --> 00:25:38,770
really convinced that chemtrails are

604
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:41,020
real yeah and so he's thinking he's

605
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:42,850
doing the right thing so he's spending

606
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:45,490
likely a chunk of his money just like

607
00:25:48,330 --> 00:25:46,809
yeah some people will spend a chunk of

608
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:48,340
their money doing a hobby this is his

609
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:50,799
hobby he cept he thinks that he's trying

610
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:53,049
to save the world yes yeah yeah and it's

611
00:25:58,650 --> 00:25:54,610
also interesting from a legal point of

612
00:26:01,169 --> 00:25:58,660
view I mean now I I don't know exactly

613
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:01,179
of what I speak but I strongly suspect

614
00:26:06,419 --> 00:26:02,530
somebody's come in the middle of the

615
00:26:08,460 --> 00:26:06,429
night with a big roll of these posters

616
00:26:10,049 --> 00:26:08,470
and some glue and a brush and and it's

617
00:26:12,419 --> 00:26:10,059
because they're placed over other

618
00:26:15,210 --> 00:26:12,429
advertising posters and these other

619
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,220
posters have been paid for you know this

620
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:17,200
is a business people put up advertising

621
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:19,330
around cities and somebody's just taken

622
00:26:23,070 --> 00:26:20,799
it upon themselves to say well here's a

623
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:23,080
nice stretch of real estate along this

624
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:25,120
road I don't care what the posters are

625
00:26:29,940 --> 00:26:27,250
there I'll slap up mine instead and that

626
00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:29,950
if that's the case that's that's typical

627
00:26:35,549 --> 00:26:33,790
typical of a zealot I would think yeah

628
00:26:38,159 --> 00:26:35,559
yeah and you see that sometimes with

629
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:38,169
graffiti like there's a guy one guy in

630
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:40,240
particular in the UK who was going

631
00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:43,090
around spraying look up

632
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:45,550
oh yeah shoot it was his website was

633
00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:47,679
look up code at UK or something like

634
00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:49,030
that but he was spraying it everywhere

635
00:26:58,560 --> 00:26:49,750
and

636
00:26:59,880 --> 00:26:58,570
think eventually he probably got into

637
00:27:01,260 --> 00:26:59,890
some trouble with the law for doing this

638
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:01,270
because he figured out who was doing it

639
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:03,850
but yeah in this thing here that they're

640
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:05,710
posting over other people's posters

641
00:27:10,020 --> 00:27:08,290
which he has kept a long-standing thing

642
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:10,030
that people do as a cheap way of putting

643
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:12,610
posters up called a fly posting I think

644
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:14,710
right yeah yeah yeah and they usually

645
00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:16,000
just will stay up there for a while

646
00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:18,940
where the real posters will the people

647
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:20,320
who actually own the space will take

648
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:23,110
them down yeah it's it can be quite

649
00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:24,970
effective because you stick it up in the

650
00:27:29,010 --> 00:27:27,460
subway a lot of people see it yeah it's

651
00:27:30,330 --> 00:27:29,020
pretty interesting this list of things I

652
00:27:32,340 --> 00:27:30,340
noticed one of the other things is the

653
00:27:33,780 --> 00:27:32,350
extreme brush fires which obviously

654
00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:33,790
you've had to like how about that huge

655
00:27:39,210 --> 00:27:37,030
problem with yes in Australia another

656
00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:39,220
thing that's they can point the finger

657
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:43,900
at and say this came treating for the of

658
00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:46,240
course bee colony like that happened the

659
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:47,920
bee colony collapse happens but then

660
00:27:51,270 --> 00:27:50,050
they kind of bounce back melting IceCaps

661
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:51,280
that's been happening the whole time

662
00:27:54,690 --> 00:27:53,290
yeah Mastry die offs isn't really

663
00:27:57,420 --> 00:27:54,700
happening that much there's been like a

664
00:28:01,440 --> 00:27:57,430
few you know specific ones with beetles

665
00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:01,450
and things like that yeah they must have

666
00:28:05,340 --> 00:28:02,710
been really glad when there's managed to

667
00:28:06,990 --> 00:28:05,350
take a few of the boxes yes maybe so now

668
00:28:08,910 --> 00:28:07,000
it's interesting you should say talk

669
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:08,920
about the polar caps melting and it just

670
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:10,690
sort of brings me back to what we were

671
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:12,910
discussing before and your podcast with

672
00:28:16,170 --> 00:28:14,770
the flat-earthers and I did listen to

673
00:28:21,210 --> 00:28:16,180
the latest one which I found fascinating

674
00:28:24,330 --> 00:28:21,220
and as I was listening and you and your

675
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:24,340
guests were describing the flat earth it

676
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:26,770
all it occurred to me that their model

677
00:28:33,210 --> 00:28:30,130
or many of them suppose that the north

678
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:33,220
poles in the center of a disc and the

679
00:28:38,730 --> 00:28:35,890
south pole is either a wall of ice

680
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,740
around the rim or or unknown and I

681
00:28:41,970 --> 00:28:40,000
thought well why isn't it the other way

682
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:41,980
around why are they so North Pole

683
00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:43,810
centric why isn't the South Pole in the

684
00:28:49,470 --> 00:28:45,550
center of the death disk in the North

685
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:49,480
Pole on the rim well it's just because

686
00:29:00,480 --> 00:28:56,790
it's because the the modern flat earth

687
00:29:02,220 --> 00:29:00,490
movement started in the late 1800s in in

688
00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:02,230
North in England

689
00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:07,030
and the guy who did it was basing all of

690
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:08,860
his thoughts on what he knew what he

691
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,570
could see around him which was like you

692
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:12,640
know the northern hemisphere he didn't

693
00:29:17,970 --> 00:29:14,770
really think very much about Australia

694
00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:17,980
or about a you go girl South Africa so

695
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:19,900
it like like a lot of things its

696
00:29:24,810 --> 00:29:21,730
northern hemisphere said it really is

697
00:29:26,940 --> 00:29:24,820
that's kind of the default thing we

698
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:26,950
could have caught that it would work

699
00:29:32,940 --> 00:29:31,450
exactly as well with the southern

700
00:29:34,020 --> 00:29:32,950
hemisphere and being in the center of

701
00:29:36,270 --> 00:29:34,030
the disc which of course is a huge

702
00:29:38,430 --> 00:29:36,280
problem for for the actual Flat Earth

703
00:29:42,060 --> 00:29:38,440
theory like he wouldn't actually work

704
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:42,070
just as well if if it was actually a

705
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:44,290
disc but one of the most hilarious

706
00:29:48,390 --> 00:29:46,570
arguments have heard from them is

707
00:29:50,610 --> 00:29:48,400
they'll say if the earth was a ball how

708
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:50,620
come the water doesn't fall off the the

709
00:29:57,299 --> 00:29:55,450
South yeah it's so hard to tell when

710
00:29:59,880 --> 00:29:57,309
people say things like that whether they

711
00:30:02,789 --> 00:29:59,890
are joking well yes it is isn't it I

712
00:30:05,130 --> 00:30:02,799
mean it's a parody of itself yeah some

713
00:30:08,610 --> 00:30:05,140
some of them are joking and some of them

714
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:08,620
are not you it's it's hard to know which

715
00:30:11,610 --> 00:30:09,760
one it is when you're when you're

716
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:11,620
talking to them now folks you can hear

717
00:30:17,610 --> 00:30:14,650
all about many conspiracy theories flat

718
00:30:19,980 --> 00:30:17,620
earth and lots of other things at the

719
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:19,990
podcast the podcast which is called

720
00:30:25,049 --> 00:30:21,370
tales from the rabbit hole how can

721
00:30:28,350 --> 00:30:25,059
people tuned into that Mick it's

722
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:28,360
everywhere you can find podcasts or tea

723
00:30:33,570 --> 00:30:31,690
ftrh dot-com yeah that's the easiest

724
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:33,580
thing to do and also I have in my

725
00:30:38,490 --> 00:30:36,010
possession here something you sent to me

726
00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:38,500
a little while ago and it's a proof copy

727
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:40,600
in fact of your book escaping the rabbit

728
00:30:45,659 --> 00:30:42,610
hole how to debunk conspiracy theories

729
00:30:48,690 --> 00:30:45,669
using facts logic and respect and I

730
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:48,700
imagine that book is still still out

731
00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:51,840
there to be bought it is yes and it's

732
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:56,020
selling reasonably well I think now as

733
00:31:01,260 --> 00:30:57,610
much as it was back then and I think

734
00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:01,270
because of the revived interest in

735
00:31:05,549 --> 00:31:03,760
conspiracy theories in a way it's has

736
00:31:07,710 --> 00:31:05,559
actually given me a little tiny boost in

737
00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:07,720
sales that's good to know

738
00:31:11,669 --> 00:31:09,790
well folks our link to where you can buy

739
00:31:14,010 --> 00:31:11,679
a copy for yourself in this week's show

740
00:31:15,470 --> 00:31:14,020
notes and I'll certainly link to your

741
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:15,480
podcast Mick

742
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:17,370
and I'm sure we'll probably speak of the

743
00:31:19,670 --> 00:31:19,200
not-too-distant future as this sort of

744
00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:19,680
thing

745
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,230
this current situation drags on a little

746
00:31:26,570 --> 00:31:24,480
bita knows who knows what the next

747
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:26,580
conspiracy will be something about the

748
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:30,090
Hollow Earth maybe yes in DHS or was

749
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:32,850
there's always something and now is the

750
00:31:36,050 --> 00:31:34,290
time for people to sit at home and think

751
00:31:39,710 --> 00:31:36,060
about conspiracy theories I can't do

752
00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:39,720
much awesome but for now Mik west over

753
00:31:55,220 --> 00:31:41,580
there in California thank you very much

754
00:31:56,450 --> 00:31:55,230
thank you I'm Mick West in my podcast

755
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:56,460
tells from the rabbit hole I have

756
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:58,050
extended conversations with people who

757
00:32:01,250 --> 00:31:59,760
have been involved in conspiracy culture

758
00:32:02,930 --> 00:32:01,260
I did this for a couple of reasons

759
00:32:04,430 --> 00:32:02,940
firstly because it's really interesting

760
00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:04,440
these people have great stories about

761
00:32:08,150 --> 00:32:06,390
how they fell down the conspiracy theory

762
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:08,160
rabbit hole or they did down there and

763
00:32:11,150 --> 00:32:09,360
what it was that helped them out

764
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:11,160
sometimes I also talked to people who

765
00:32:14,330 --> 00:32:12,840
investigate conspiracy theories and they

766
00:32:16,430 --> 00:32:14,340
have equally fascinating stories from

767
00:32:17,780 --> 00:32:16,440
the other side secondly I want to

768
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:17,790
understand how best to prevent the

769
00:32:20,780 --> 00:32:19,140
spread of conspiracy theories and

770
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:20,790
misinformation which is an increasing

771
00:32:25,130 --> 00:32:22,650
problem in a time when alternative media

772
00:32:26,690 --> 00:32:25,140
is exploding the best way to do this is

773
00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:26,700
to communicate effectively with the

774
00:32:31,970 --> 00:32:28,590
people involved and the best way to do

775
00:32:36,210 --> 00:32:31,980
that with a nice long chat check it out

776
00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:36,220
tales from the rabbit hole TFT Rh calm

777
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:47,770
that looks good enough to eat

778
00:33:02,170 --> 00:32:54,310
or does it here's the diet skeptic

779
00:33:05,490 --> 00:33:02,180
mandelino ball hello skeptics and

780
00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:05,500
listeners Mandee Lee Noble here

781
00:33:15,610 --> 00:33:08,240
dietitian and skeptic reporting from

782
00:33:18,580 --> 00:33:15,620
Brisbane well welcome everyone to the

783
00:33:22,030 --> 00:33:18,590
diet skeptic report and welcome to

784
00:33:25,090 --> 00:33:22,040
unprecedented times this is my first I

785
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:25,100
so skeptic report completed around the

786
00:33:31,150 --> 00:33:27,290
activities of a full house of humans

787
00:33:34,180 --> 00:33:31,160
working and learning from home the

788
00:33:36,490 --> 00:33:34,190
covert 19 pandemic has for many of us

789
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:36,500
brought significant changes to our lives

790
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:40,010
and even how we think and what we value

791
00:33:46,930 --> 00:33:43,730
and you may be thinking that in a post

792
00:33:48,790 --> 00:33:46,940
covered world where frontline health

793
00:33:50,970 --> 00:33:48,800
professionals and scientists are being

794
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:50,980
recognized as the heroes that they are

795
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:53,690
that the place for pseudoscience and

796
00:34:00,550 --> 00:33:57,010
health has significantly diminished

797
00:34:03,030 --> 00:34:00,560
unfortunately that is not the case the

798
00:34:06,610 --> 00:34:03,040
reason for this is that health concern

799
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:06,620
provides opportunities for so-called

800
00:34:11,260 --> 00:34:09,770
alternative health providers and this

801
00:34:14,290 --> 00:34:11,270
has definitely been the case with

802
00:34:17,890 --> 00:34:14,300
coffered 19 well we've already seen

803
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:17,900
dodgy devices useless supplements and

804
00:34:23,590 --> 00:34:20,570
non evidence-based wellness programs

805
00:34:27,070 --> 00:34:23,600
being touted as protective against

806
00:34:30,910 --> 00:34:27,080
covert 19 so this week on the diet

807
00:34:34,060 --> 00:34:30,920
skeptic report I am discussing why for

808
00:34:37,540 --> 00:34:34,070
wellness giri's the covert 19 pandemic

809
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:37,550
is good for business first to some good

810
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:40,730
news Australian listeners you may

811
00:34:47,110 --> 00:34:43,970
already be where that on Friday our own

812
00:34:50,890 --> 00:34:47,120
infamous wall nurse guru Pete Evans

813
00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:50,900
copter $25,000 five from the Australian

814
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:53,270
therapy it's good administration

815
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:55,130
after I tweeted a video of him

816
00:34:59,860 --> 00:34:57,770
complaining a device caught a bio

817
00:35:02,560 --> 00:34:59,870
charger which is nothing more than a

818
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:02,570
plasma lamp with flashing lights could

819
00:35:10,180 --> 00:35:06,410
have some action on covert 19 here is

820
00:35:11,470 --> 00:35:10,190
Richard reading the t/ta statement from

821
00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:11,480
the Australian government the

822
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:13,670
Therapeutic Goods Administration at

823
00:35:22,330 --> 00:35:19,850
Delhi wwt g8 gov au media and press

824
00:35:25,690 --> 00:35:22,340
release statement issued on the 24th of

825
00:35:29,170 --> 00:35:25,700
April twenty twenty feet Evans company

826
00:35:31,180 --> 00:35:29,180
fined for alleged covert 19 advertising

827
00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:31,190
breaches the Therapeutic Goods

828
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:34,760
Administration TGA has issued two

829
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:37,760
infringement notices to Peter Evans chef

830
00:35:42,670 --> 00:35:41,090
proprietary limited the company totaling

831
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:42,680
twenty five thousand two hundred dollars

832
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:45,920
for alleged breaches of the therapeutics

833
00:35:53,980 --> 00:35:51,050
Goods Act 1989 the Act mr. Evans is the

834
00:35:56,620 --> 00:35:53,990
sole director / secretary of the company

835
00:36:00,190 --> 00:35:56,630
the TGA received a number of complaints

836
00:36:03,450 --> 00:36:00,200
about the promotion of a bio charge a

837
00:36:07,090 --> 00:36:03,460
device that occurred during a facebook

838
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:07,100
livestream on the 9th of April 2020

839
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:10,850
mr. Evans allegedly live streamed on his

840
00:36:17,140 --> 00:36:14,090
Facebook page which has more than 1.4

841
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:17,150
million followers claims that the device

842
00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:20,720
could be used in relation to quote wu

843
00:36:27,370 --> 00:36:24,260
hand coronavirus unquote a claim which

844
00:36:31,540 --> 00:36:27,380
has no apparent foundation and which the

845
00:36:34,110 --> 00:36:31,550
TGA takes extremely seriously any claim

846
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:34,120
that references covert 19 is a

847
00:36:40,930 --> 00:36:37,490
restricted representation under the

848
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:40,940
therapeutics Goods legislation and is of

849
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:44,000
significant concern to the TGA given the

850
00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:45,770
heightened public concern about the

851
00:36:51,210 --> 00:36:49,070
pandemic the TGA recently published a

852
00:36:54,910 --> 00:36:51,220
warning to advertisers and consumers

853
00:36:58,270 --> 00:36:54,920
about illegal advertising relating to

854
00:37:00,400 --> 00:36:58,280
covert 19 the TGA has issued the company

855
00:37:02,890 --> 00:37:00,410
with an infringement notice in respect

856
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:02,900
to the representation made in the live

857
00:37:06,970 --> 00:37:06,530
stream / video the second infringement

858
00:37:09,310 --> 00:37:06,980
no

859
00:37:20,210 --> 00:37:09,320
was issued for alleged advertising

860
00:37:20,220 --> 00:37:41,190
[Music]

861
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:46,810
I company as being for therapeutic uses

862
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:50,690
it is a therapeutics good within the

863
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:52,880
meaning of the Act and is subject to the

864
00:37:59,069 --> 00:37:56,089
regulatory framework established under

865
00:38:02,819 --> 00:37:59,079
the Act and administered by the TGA

866
00:38:05,710 --> 00:38:02,829
unless a specific exemption applies

867
00:38:08,349 --> 00:38:05,720
therapeutic goods must be entered in the

868
00:38:12,370 --> 00:38:08,359
Australian register of Therapeutic Goods

869
00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:12,380
a RTG before they can be lawfully

870
00:38:19,390 --> 00:38:16,430
supplied or advertised in Australia the

871
00:38:22,660 --> 00:38:19,400
TGA regulates all medicines medical

872
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:22,670
devices and biologicals under the Act

873
00:38:29,020 --> 00:38:26,930
the regulatory scheme is important to

874
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:29,030
the safety of Australian consumers and

875
00:38:35,020 --> 00:38:31,910
the TGA investigates suspected illegal

876
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:35,030
activity related to therapeutic goods

877
00:38:40,089 --> 00:38:38,170
the TGA is monitoring non-compliance

878
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:40,099
particularly in relation to the

879
00:38:46,180 --> 00:38:42,250
advertising of products that claim to

880
00:38:48,550 --> 00:38:46,190
prevent or cure kovat 19 and will

881
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:48,560
continue to take action in relation to

882
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:51,200
any advertisements that do not meet

883
00:38:56,260 --> 00:38:53,599
their requirements including those that

884
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:56,270
seek to mislead consumers when that

885
00:39:00,099 --> 00:38:58,000
press release comes to us from the

886
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:00,109
Therapeutic Goods Administration

887
00:39:07,540 --> 00:39:03,520
published on the 24th of April 2020

888
00:39:11,079 --> 00:39:07,550
thanks Richard unfortunately spreaking

889
00:39:13,210 --> 00:39:11,089
supposedly therapeutic disco lights it's

890
00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:13,220
not all that Pete has had to say about

891
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:17,089
covert 19 Peters also repeated as of

892
00:39:20,740 --> 00:39:19,970
substantiating claim that nuts can be

893
00:39:22,510 --> 00:39:20,750
problematic

894
00:39:25,270 --> 00:39:22,520
for our immune system in relation to

895
00:39:27,610 --> 00:39:25,280
viruses and that the government response

896
00:39:30,850 --> 00:39:27,620
should be focused on wellness rather

897
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:30,860
than containment in another recent

898
00:39:36,130 --> 00:39:33,710
Facebook live session evans express

899
00:39:38,290 --> 00:39:36,140
genuine bewilderment that there was no

900
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:38,300
interest from the media when he offered

901
00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:41,510
paleo recipes for publication to help

902
00:39:47,020 --> 00:39:44,630
the situation but Peters not the only

903
00:39:50,110 --> 00:39:47,030
wellness guru to take advantage of the

904
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:50,120
covert 19 pandemic to promote their

905
00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:53,810
products and services it should come as

906
00:40:00,690 --> 00:39:56,960
no surprise to skeptic listeners that

907
00:40:03,790 --> 00:40:00,700
Pete Evans mentor Joseph Mercola an

908
00:40:06,310 --> 00:40:03,800
american osteopathic physician who

909
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:06,320
markets dietary supplements and medical

910
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:10,490
devices has also released six podcasts

911
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,130
on covert 19 that are targeted at

912
00:40:18,010 --> 00:40:15,200
increasing the concerns of his

913
00:40:21,820 --> 00:40:18,020
listenership by connecting the outbreak

914
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:21,830
to wild conspiracy theories McCullough

915
00:40:27,370 --> 00:40:24,170
then also makes claims without evidence

916
00:40:30,130 --> 00:40:27,380
that vitamin C magnesium and ozone

917
00:40:33,550 --> 00:40:30,140
therapy may be able to prevent and treat

918
00:40:36,250 --> 00:40:33,560
covered 19 of course all of these

919
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:36,260
treatments are without evidence but they

920
00:40:43,090 --> 00:40:39,440
are also all available for purchase on

921
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:43,100
his website there is also Cindy Amara

922
00:40:48,730 --> 00:40:45,920
who describes herself as a nutritionist

923
00:40:50,650 --> 00:40:48,740
and wellness influencer living a short

924
00:40:54,670 --> 00:40:50,660
distance north of me on the beautiful

925
00:40:58,210 --> 00:40:54,680
Sunshine Coast skeptics may already know

926
00:41:02,010 --> 00:40:58,220
of Amara for her unfounded nutrition

927
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:02,020
advice and support of the anti-vaxxer

928
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:04,850
today Cindy Amara was featured in an

929
00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:06,850
article in a local newspaper the

930
00:41:13,090 --> 00:41:10,310
Sunshine Coast daily saying the chances

931
00:41:15,250 --> 00:41:13,100
of you fighting the corona virus are far

932
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:15,260
greater if he can be healthy she said

933
00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:17,690
it's not the virus that's the issue

934
00:41:22,210 --> 00:41:20,150
it's a host and if you're a sick human

935
00:41:25,570 --> 00:41:22,220
you're not going to be able to fight the

936
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:25,580
virus then of course the article in the

937
00:41:29,890 --> 00:41:27,530
Sunshine Coast daily included links to

938
00:41:32,310 --> 00:41:29,900
Amara's website where she sells books

939
00:41:34,420 --> 00:41:32,320
supplements and weight loss programs I

940
00:41:37,210 --> 00:41:34,430
could go on

941
00:41:39,490 --> 00:41:37,220
and the list is certainly endless but

942
00:41:41,170 --> 00:41:39,500
the bottom line is that size is yet to

943
00:41:43,540 --> 00:41:41,180
identify effective drugs for the

944
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:43,550
prevention and treatment of covert 19and

945
00:41:47,819 --> 00:41:45,650
our best bet is to adhere to the advice

946
00:41:50,109 --> 00:41:47,829
of our medical authorities regarding

947
00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:50,119
containment within the community and

948
00:41:55,569 --> 00:41:52,609
seeking health care immediately should

949
00:41:57,549 --> 00:41:55,579
its symptoms arise well there's no doubt

950
00:42:00,160 --> 00:41:57,559
that the message is from Peter Evans

951
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:00,170
Joseph McCullough and Cindy O'Meara are

952
00:42:05,230 --> 00:42:02,510
dangerous and placed a community at risk

953
00:42:08,290 --> 00:42:05,240
of higher and more rapid rates of covert

954
00:42:10,809 --> 00:42:08,300
xix infection what I would like to

955
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:10,819
invite you the listener to do is to take

956
00:42:17,230 --> 00:42:12,650
something more away from this situation

957
00:42:20,170 --> 00:42:17,240
and that is an Anu Niq insight into how

958
00:42:22,620 --> 00:42:20,180
the peddlers of whoo exploit the health

959
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:22,630
concerns of the vulnerable for profit

960
00:42:28,450 --> 00:42:25,160
this is a pattern of behavior that

961
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:28,460
underpins all wellness giri's their

962
00:42:33,370 --> 00:42:30,770
objective is to identify health concerns

963
00:42:35,260 --> 00:42:33,380
whether they are perceived or real and

964
00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:35,270
to provide services and products that

965
00:42:39,539 --> 00:42:37,369
claim success beyond what current

966
00:42:41,740 --> 00:42:39,549
evidence-based treatments can provide

967
00:42:44,559 --> 00:42:41,750
the fact that these services and

968
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:44,569
products show no objective benefits does

969
00:42:49,359 --> 00:42:46,160
not matter because they are not held to

970
00:42:51,579 --> 00:42:49,369
the rigors of testing sometimes these

971
00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:51,589
so-called alternative medicines may look

972
00:42:56,410 --> 00:42:54,710
like they've achieved benefits this is

973
00:42:57,549 --> 00:42:56,420
because they're provided for conditions

974
00:42:59,859 --> 00:42:57,559
that would have improved without

975
00:43:02,650 --> 00:42:59,869
treatment or for conditions that are

976
00:43:04,750 --> 00:43:02,660
naturally relapsing and remitting but

977
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:04,760
more often health consumers realize

978
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:06,410
they've been scammed and they're too

979
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:08,690
embarrassed or too sick to make a formal

980
00:43:12,370 --> 00:43:09,440
complaint

981
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,380
so skeptics please feel free not to

982
00:43:17,799 --> 00:43:14,960
accept this blatant disregard for the

983
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:17,809
most vulnerable in our community and our

984
00:43:24,750 --> 00:43:19,970
national effort to minimize the effect

985
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:24,760
of covert 19 if you see dodgy claims

986
00:43:31,059 --> 00:43:28,250
record them and report them the TTS

987
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,069
response to Pete Evans bio charges shows

988
00:43:37,210 --> 00:43:33,440
our regulators are listening and they

989
00:43:41,650 --> 00:43:38,910
[Music]

990
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:41,660
finally to everyone listening I would

991
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:44,330
like to say two things firstly to those

992
00:43:48,310 --> 00:43:46,310
who've lost so much including the lives

993
00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:48,320
of loved ones during this pandemic my

994
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:50,150
heart goes out to you

995
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:52,850
secondly to those directly working to

996
00:43:58,030 --> 00:43:55,850
fight covert 19 I'm eternally grateful

997
00:43:59,680 --> 00:43:58,040
and to everyone at home caring for

998
00:44:01,660 --> 00:43:59,690
themselves their loved ones and their

999
00:44:04,060 --> 00:44:01,670
community by following the guidelines of

1000
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:04,070
our authorities even when it comes at

1001
00:44:13,210 --> 00:44:11,690
great personal cost I thank you thank

1002
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:13,220
you Richard for helping with this new

1003
00:44:21,250 --> 00:44:15,440
report and thank you skeptics for

1004
00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:25,290
[Music]

1005
00:44:32,590 --> 00:44:28,120
aliens are probing people and mutilating

1006
00:44:35,110 --> 00:44:32,600
toes 9/11 was an inside job I knew oppa

1007
00:44:38,260 --> 00:44:35,120
to clean up my athlete's foot back seams

1008
00:44:41,830 --> 00:44:38,270
pulse autism little selfies the clematis

1009
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:41,840
lawn is definitely real we all have

1010
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:43,130
friends and family who believe these

1011
00:44:47,620 --> 00:44:45,680
things and much more well if you're a

1012
00:44:49,390 --> 00:44:47,630
rational thinker who is tired of arguing

1013
00:44:51,490 --> 00:44:49,400
on social media and never getting

1014
00:44:53,530 --> 00:44:51,500
anywhere we have a solution for you

1015
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:53,540
join the guerrilla skepticism on

1016
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:55,850
wikipedia team and we will teach you how

1017
00:45:00,490 --> 00:44:58,400
to add reliable scientific and skeptical

1018
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:00,500
information to the world's number-one

1019
00:45:04,300 --> 00:45:01,730
source of information

1020
00:45:06,370 --> 00:45:04,310
Wikipedia we write new articles and

1021
00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:06,380
improve existing ones we remove

1022
00:45:10,810 --> 00:45:08,390
pseudoscience paranormal and old meant

1023
00:45:13,060 --> 00:45:10,820
claims substituting the actual facts and

1024
00:45:15,070 --> 00:45:13,070
we operate in many languages we've

1025
00:45:17,590 --> 00:45:15,080
already reached tens of millions of

1026
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:17,600
people searching for information but as

1027
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:19,130
you can imagine we can

1028
00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:22,160
we're doing up so please join us all you

1029
00:45:26,979 --> 00:45:24,710
need is a PC a Facebook account and the

1030
00:45:29,019 --> 00:45:26,989
desire to help educate the planet in

1031
00:45:29,710 --> 00:45:29,029
fact you'll be educating the world while

1032
00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:29,720
you sleep

1033
00:45:37,870 --> 00:45:34,180
contact us at es Oh W team @ gmail.com

1034
00:45:40,770 --> 00:45:37,880
guerrilla skepticism the time is now

1035
00:45:59,630 --> 00:45:40,780
music by purple planet calm

1036
00:46:01,560 --> 00:45:59,640
[Music]

1037
00:46:04,339 --> 00:46:01,570
logical fallacies

1038
00:46:07,859 --> 00:46:04,349
[Music]

1039
00:46:09,749 --> 00:46:07,869
what are logical fallacies and why is it

1040
00:46:11,859 --> 00:46:09,759
important that critical thinkers should

1041
00:46:14,589 --> 00:46:11,869
know about them

1042
00:46:17,620 --> 00:46:14,599
a logical fallacy is an error we can

1043
00:46:19,870 --> 00:46:17,630
make in reasoning but it usually crops

1044
00:46:23,620 --> 00:46:19,880
up when we are discussing or arguing our

1045
00:46:26,049 --> 00:46:23,630
point of view some people might even

1046
00:46:27,759 --> 00:46:26,059
knowingly use them to try and score

1047
00:46:31,660 --> 00:46:27,769
cheap points in an argument

1048
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:31,670
due to intellectual laziness they are

1049
00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:34,249
traps we can fall into but if we know

1050
00:46:38,769 --> 00:46:36,470
what to look out for we can spot them

1051
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:38,779
when they occur and stop ourselves from

1052
00:46:43,299 --> 00:46:41,310
using them

1053
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:43,309
[Music]

1054
00:46:49,759 --> 00:46:46,079
this week we'll look at the appeal to

1055
00:46:51,709 --> 00:46:49,769
nature this is the false somewhat

1056
00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:51,719
romantic idea that just because

1057
00:46:57,199 --> 00:46:54,150
something comes from nature it must

1058
00:47:00,979 --> 00:46:57,209
therefore be pure wholesome beneficial

1059
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:00,989
and healthy basically good for you this

1060
00:47:05,779 --> 00:47:03,119
fallacy can often be seen in the

1061
00:47:09,410 --> 00:47:05,789
marketing of food and certain so-called

1062
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:09,420
alternative medicines it plays on our

1063
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:11,729
notion of life in a simpler more

1064
00:47:18,620 --> 00:47:15,170
innocent time that really never existed

1065
00:47:21,259 --> 00:47:18,630
when people lived a more natural life

1066
00:47:23,870 --> 00:47:21,269
their life expectancy was generally

1067
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:23,880
shorter and plagued with bad health

1068
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:26,880
along the way I'm going to stick to

1069
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:28,559
natural products only from now on and

1070
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:32,130
steer clear of chemicals somehow over

1071
00:47:37,459 --> 00:47:34,650
the last few decades the idea that

1072
00:47:40,249 --> 00:47:37,469
chemicals are artificial and therefore

1073
00:47:43,370 --> 00:47:40,259
bad has become a widely held public

1074
00:47:46,219 --> 00:47:43,380
opinion you have no doubt seen the words

1075
00:47:50,180 --> 00:47:46,229
chemical free on everything from food

1076
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:50,190
supplements to shampoo since even water

1077
00:47:55,819 --> 00:47:52,890
is a chemical it's formula being the

1078
00:48:00,559 --> 00:47:55,829
famous h2o it's a wonder that this

1079
00:48:03,620 --> 00:48:00,569
falsehood ever caught hold chemicals be

1080
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:03,630
they natural or artificial and neither

1081
00:48:08,569 --> 00:48:05,729
good nor bad in themselves

1082
00:48:11,299 --> 00:48:08,579
it's how they are used and in what

1083
00:48:14,569 --> 00:48:11,309
quantity or in what compound that

1084
00:48:16,699 --> 00:48:14,579
determines their effect I'm not going to

1085
00:48:18,739 --> 00:48:16,709
risk my children getting vaccinated it

1086
00:48:21,019 --> 00:48:18,749
is important that they get a dose of the

1087
00:48:24,499 --> 00:48:21,029
measles to build up their natural

1088
00:48:27,259 --> 00:48:24,509
immunity one of the privileges many of

1089
00:48:29,779 --> 00:48:27,269
us have is to live in a society with

1090
00:48:33,019 --> 00:48:29,789
advanced medical care which led to

1091
00:48:37,089 --> 00:48:33,029
vaccination and the near eradication of

1092
00:48:40,219 --> 00:48:37,099
diseases like measles even if a child is

1093
00:48:43,189 --> 00:48:40,229
unfortunate enough to contract measles

1094
00:48:47,029 --> 00:48:43,199
our health system is ready if that child

1095
00:48:48,769 --> 00:48:47,039
becomes seriously ill in some parts of

1096
00:48:51,859 --> 00:48:48,779
the world where people are less

1097
00:48:54,739 --> 00:48:51,869
fortunate each year thousands of

1098
00:48:56,690 --> 00:48:54,749
children and even adults die from

1099
00:49:00,079 --> 00:48:56,700
measles which

1100
00:49:04,970 --> 00:49:00,089
after all is a natural disease even

1101
00:49:07,130 --> 00:49:04,980
covert 19 is natural many women these

1102
00:49:09,859 --> 00:49:07,140
days are opting for natural childbirth

1103
00:49:12,859 --> 00:49:09,869
in the comfort of their own home with

1104
00:49:14,810 --> 00:49:12,869
family and a midwife on hand this means

1105
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:14,820
that the child will start life in a

1106
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:18,210
peaceful and loving environment newborn

1107
00:49:24,020 --> 00:49:20,609
babies are incapable of knowing or

1108
00:49:28,220 --> 00:49:24,030
caring where they are born and will not

1109
00:49:32,060 --> 00:49:28,230
remember the event while birth is indeed

1110
00:49:34,839 --> 00:49:32,070
part of nature so is the alarmingly high

1111
00:49:38,060 --> 00:49:34,849
death rate for both mother and baby

1112
00:49:41,420 --> 00:49:38,070
where modern medical care is not

1113
00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:41,430
available for most of our ancestors

1114
00:49:47,300 --> 00:49:44,150
going back into the distant past a

1115
00:49:50,020 --> 00:49:47,310
natural childbirth was a time of both

1116
00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:50,030
great anticipation and great

1117
00:50:01,570 --> 00:49:58,120
nature is neither our enemy nor our

1118
00:50:05,110 --> 00:50:01,580
friend it is simply the ongoing process

1119
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:05,120
of the universe we can point to much in

1120
00:50:11,230 --> 00:50:07,490
nature that is good for us like fresh

1121
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:11,240
air and necessary vitamins and much that

1122
00:50:17,350 --> 00:50:14,570
is bad even fatal like many natural

1123
00:50:22,180 --> 00:50:17,360
diseases or natural disasters such as

1124
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:22,190
earthquakes fires and floods just keep

1125
00:50:28,450 --> 00:50:25,310
in mind that nature is a blind uncaring

1126
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:28,460
process and not some benevolent entity

1127
00:50:39,850 --> 00:50:37,390
knowing a logical fallacy when you hear

1128
00:50:42,220 --> 00:50:39,860
one and even knowing its name is

1129
00:50:43,050 --> 00:50:42,230
important when arguing your point of

1130
00:50:46,060 --> 00:50:43,060
view

1131
00:50:49,390 --> 00:50:46,070
however you may come across as arrogant

1132
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:49,400
and not get very far if you call it out

1133
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:52,130
by name to your opponent when you hear

1134
00:50:59,200 --> 00:50:56,330
it being used if your opponent calls you

1135
00:51:02,550 --> 00:50:59,210
out for using one it's time to stop and

1136
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:02,560
think about how you are making your case

1137
00:51:08,890 --> 00:51:05,330
use your knowledge of logical fallacies

1138
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:08,900
wisely and remember that even if your

1139
00:51:14,380 --> 00:51:11,510
point of view is right and you know all

1140
00:51:16,690 --> 00:51:14,390
the pitfalls in arguing your case it

1141
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:16,700
doesn't always mean you'll win on the

1142
00:51:26,740 --> 00:51:20,480
day and a skeptics we must also remember

1143
00:51:28,540 --> 00:51:26,750
that we too can be wrong at times i'm

1144
00:51:40,210 --> 00:51:28,550
michelle beakers Marv from The Vic

1145
00:51:40,220 --> 00:51:46,900
[Music]

1146
00:51:52,579 --> 00:51:50,180
yes doc hey Sam

1147
00:51:54,530 --> 00:51:52,589
have you ever wondered what skeptics are

1148
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:54,540
up to in countries where English is not

1149
00:51:58,220 --> 00:51:56,880
necessarily the first language or are

1150
00:52:00,109 --> 00:51:58,230
you interested to learn about some

1151
00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:00,119
fascinating and sometimes very bizarre

1152
00:52:04,550 --> 00:52:02,400
Europe related facts events or people

1153
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:04,560
from history of skepticism or do you

1154
00:52:08,329 --> 00:52:06,000
just want to know who's been really

1155
00:52:11,390 --> 00:52:08,339
wrong lately you can find out all about

1156
00:52:15,980 --> 00:52:11,400
that and more on the award-winning show

1157
00:52:18,079 --> 00:52:15,990
the ESB the European skeptics podcast so

1158
00:52:21,770 --> 00:52:18,089
where can people find the show you can

1159
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:21,780
find it online at the ESP dot EU but you

1160
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:23,970
can also follow us on Twitter at es

1161
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:26,730
podcast and d'ascoyne you or like us on

1162
00:52:32,030 --> 00:52:29,040
Facebook oh and you can contact the show

1163
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:32,040
by sending an email to info at the ESP

1164
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:34,319
dot EU if you want to subscribe do a

1165
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:36,450
quick search for the European skeptics

1166
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:39,690
podcast on soundcloud iTunes stitcher or

1167
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:42,450
whatever you get to your podcast the

1168
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:46,290
European sceptics podcast the real ESP

1169
00:52:53,650 --> 00:52:48,650
experience

1170
00:53:16,930 --> 00:53:14,920
I don't know why you can't be here is a

1171
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:16,940
newsletter from the Center for inquiry

1172
00:53:24,460 --> 00:53:22,490
at Center for inquiry org it's time to

1173
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:24,470
stop giving snake oil salesmen the

1174
00:53:33,609 --> 00:53:30,890
benefit of the doubt the makers of

1175
00:53:36,730 --> 00:53:33,619
homeopathic medicine wanted both ways

1176
00:53:39,730 --> 00:53:36,740
they want their drugs to be treated like

1177
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:39,740
real medicine to be able to claim they

1178
00:53:44,170 --> 00:53:42,410
can treat all kinds of ailments and sell

1179
00:53:47,620 --> 00:53:44,180
them right alongside evidence-based

1180
00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:47,630
medicines on pharmacy shelves they also

1181
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:50,089
don't want their products to be held to

1182
00:53:56,170 --> 00:53:52,730
the same rigorous standards of safety

1183
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:56,180
and efficacy as real medicine they don't

1184
00:54:01,450 --> 00:53:57,770
want to have to prove their stuff

1185
00:54:04,329 --> 00:54:01,460
actually works because of course they

1186
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:04,339
know it doesn't homeopathy is perhaps

1187
00:54:09,099 --> 00:54:06,410
the most obvious phony form of

1188
00:54:11,260 --> 00:54:09,109
alternative medicine and we simply can't

1189
00:54:14,019 --> 00:54:11,270
assume that those who manufacture and

1190
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:14,029
marketed are acting in good faith any

1191
00:54:18,730 --> 00:54:16,160
more than we can assume positive intent

1192
00:54:21,609 --> 00:54:18,740
from a fraud psychic who fleeces clients

1193
00:54:25,180 --> 00:54:21,619
out of their life savings to remove a

1194
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:25,190
curse but this is how the Food and Drug

1195
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:27,680
Administration policy has treated

1196
00:54:33,250 --> 00:54:30,880
homeopathy profit tiers for years

1197
00:54:35,019 --> 00:54:33,260
allowing them to make all manner of

1198
00:54:38,109 --> 00:54:35,029
outrageous claims about homeopathy

1199
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:38,119
stealing powers while evading any

1200
00:54:43,539 --> 00:54:41,569
meaningful oversight or regulation the

1201
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:43,549
Center for inquiry is doing something

1202
00:54:48,490 --> 00:54:46,250
about it we have just filed our official

1203
00:54:52,180 --> 00:54:48,500
response to the FDA's draft guidelines

1204
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:52,190
on homeopathic drugs telling them they

1205
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:54,890
need to stop giving snake oil salesmen

1206
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:56,960
the benefit of the doubt and hold them

1207
00:55:01,990 --> 00:54:59,119
accountable to the Food Drug and

1208
00:55:04,569 --> 00:55:02,000
Cosmetic Act like all other drug

1209
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:04,579
manufacturers in the middle of a global

1210
00:55:09,950 --> 00:55:07,290
pandemic when people are feeling scared

1211
00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:09,960
vulnerable and when Miss information

1212
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:12,420
floods social media the officials

1213
00:55:17,180 --> 00:55:14,400
charged with protecting Americans health

1214
00:55:19,580 --> 00:55:17,190
need to take a firmer stand against

1215
00:55:22,310 --> 00:55:19,590
pseudoscience so now is the time for the

1216
00:55:25,220 --> 00:55:22,320
FDA to enforce its own rules and stop

1217
00:55:29,150 --> 00:55:25,230
making special exceptions for what they

1218
00:55:31,340 --> 00:55:29,160
know to be fake medicine CFI is the

1219
00:55:33,470 --> 00:55:31,350
leading organization taking on the

1220
00:55:36,980 --> 00:55:33,480
deceptive marketing of homeopathic

1221
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:36,990
medicine our years of advocacy have led

1222
00:55:41,540 --> 00:55:39,090
to stricter regulations in the marketing

1223
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,550
of homeopathic products from the Federal

1224
00:55:47,630 --> 00:55:43,680
Trade Commission and we are currently

1225
00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:47,640
waging two major consumer protection

1226
00:55:53,780 --> 00:55:51,240
lawsuits against Walmart and CBS over

1227
00:55:57,590 --> 00:55:53,790
their sale and marketing of homeopathics

1228
00:55:59,650 --> 00:55:57,600
we are making a real difference like no

1229
00:56:02,840 --> 00:55:59,660
other time before we need a

1230
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:02,850
zero-tolerance approach to pseudoscience

1231
00:56:09,770 --> 00:56:06,720
and snake oil this is the era where

1232
00:56:12,650 --> 00:56:09,780
science and evidence must prevail for

1233
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:12,660
all our sakes join us in this effort and

1234
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:19,650
be part of the solution and that comes

1235
00:56:24,050 --> 00:56:21,540
to us from the Center for inquiry and

1236
00:56:27,170 --> 00:56:24,060
you can find out more by visiting Center

1237
00:56:31,470 --> 00:56:27,180
for inquiry org and Center for inquiry

1238
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:45,200
[Music]

1239
00:56:49,380 --> 00:56:47,549
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1240
00:56:51,660 --> 00:56:49,390
Onan Thank You Ponder's for being the

1241
00:56:52,859 --> 00:56:51,670
co-host this week I'll thank you it's

1242
00:56:55,980 --> 00:56:52,869
been a pleasure to be here very

1243
00:56:58,500 --> 00:56:55,990
interesting episode now I know you've

1244
00:56:59,700 --> 00:56:58,510
got some some news to tell us but before

1245
00:57:01,680 --> 00:56:59,710
you do that I've got some interesting

1246
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:01,690
news a couple of weeks ago on the show I

1247
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:04,690
was telling listeners about an idea I

1248
00:57:10,829 --> 00:57:07,930
had for an online depository of all

1249
00:57:13,019 --> 00:57:10,839
things crazy to do with coronavirus and

1250
00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:13,029
quackery and outrageous claims will a

1251
00:57:17,339 --> 00:57:14,529
listener to the show

1252
00:57:19,589 --> 00:57:17,349
a supporter of the show has got his act

1253
00:57:22,589 --> 00:57:19,599
together and he's put together a site

1254
00:57:26,849 --> 00:57:22,599
where anybody can go along and upload

1255
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:26,859
their crazy covert 19 conspiracy or

1256
00:57:35,549 --> 00:57:30,960
health claims that site is Corona

1257
00:57:38,430 --> 00:57:35,559
conspiracy dot cloud Corona conspiracy

1258
00:57:40,890 --> 00:57:38,440
one word dot cloud I'll link to that in

1259
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:40,900
the show notes if you see something on

1260
00:57:45,420 --> 00:57:43,599
Facebook or online take a screen capture

1261
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:45,430
of it if you're out and about in public

1262
00:57:49,859 --> 00:57:47,890
doing your daily exercise walk for

1263
00:57:51,660 --> 00:57:49,869
example and you see some sort of crazy

1264
00:57:53,999 --> 00:57:51,670
health claim with corona virus or a

1265
00:57:56,009 --> 00:57:54,009
conspiracy maybe you can take a picture

1266
00:57:58,410 --> 00:57:56,019
then upload it to that site together

1267
00:58:00,599 --> 00:57:58,420
with some other information it'll be

1268
00:58:04,769 --> 00:58:00,609
vetted of course and then that will be

1269
00:58:06,660 --> 00:58:04,779
made publicly available so maybe people

1270
00:58:09,569 --> 00:58:06,670
around the world can use that I mean

1271
00:58:12,839 --> 00:58:09,579
we've all got common goals when it comes

1272
00:58:15,029 --> 00:58:12,849
to this so that's a that's very welcome

1273
00:58:17,549 --> 00:58:15,039
sight and I'm must thank our supporter

1274
00:58:19,319 --> 00:58:17,559
for putting that together yeah I think

1275
00:58:22,349 --> 00:58:19,329
that's a very good idea it's also be a

1276
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:22,359
record I mean if going on like in the

1277
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:24,250
future you can go back and look at it

1278
00:58:29,999 --> 00:58:27,130
what was really peddled during this

1279
00:58:32,009 --> 00:58:30,009
interesting times yeah oh it's I think

1280
00:58:33,329 --> 00:58:32,019
it'll be a great resource for people all

1281
00:58:36,299 --> 00:58:33,339
around the world now you've got some

1282
00:58:38,460 --> 00:58:36,309
news from Sweden yeah that's right as

1283
00:58:40,859 --> 00:58:38,470
you've mentioned Richard on the sceptic

1284
00:58:42,569 --> 00:58:40,869
zone here before they have in the UK

1285
00:58:45,420 --> 00:58:42,579
something they call skeptics in the pub

1286
00:58:47,460 --> 00:58:45,430
online whether you have meetings online

1287
00:58:49,259 --> 00:58:47,470
instead of going to the local pub

1288
00:58:51,930 --> 00:58:49,269
because you well you can't

1289
00:58:53,819 --> 00:58:51,940
and that's happening in that's happening

1290
00:58:56,069 --> 00:58:53,829
in other countries as well add I don't

1291
00:58:58,049 --> 00:58:56,079
like to say and

1292
00:58:59,190 --> 00:58:58,059
I know our friends in Portugal have done

1293
00:59:02,009 --> 00:58:59,200
something like that

1294
00:59:03,930 --> 00:59:02,019
I myself have appeared in one skeptics

1295
00:59:07,170 --> 00:59:03,940
in the pub online a little more than a

1296
00:59:08,699 --> 00:59:07,180
week ago I gave a talk in Swedish it is

1297
00:59:11,279 --> 00:59:08,709
it's called

1298
00:59:15,390 --> 00:59:11,289
if you translate it how to know what's

1299
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:15,400
fake when all is uncertain so I think

1300
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:17,890
that's I'd like to push that a little

1301
00:59:22,349 --> 00:59:20,319
bit I I know he's most people maybe

1302
00:59:24,449 --> 00:59:22,359
listening to this show do not speak

1303
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:24,459
Swedish but if you do then you can check

1304
00:59:28,979 --> 00:59:26,890
it out and I think it's a great idea and

1305
00:59:32,370 --> 00:59:28,989
I encourage other sceptical groups

1306
00:59:34,799 --> 00:59:32,380
across the world to do the same so how

1307
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:34,809
can people find out oh they should go to

1308
00:59:40,829 --> 00:59:37,690
our YouTube channel the Swedish skeptics

1309
00:59:44,609 --> 00:59:40,839
YouTube channel and Swedish skeptics are

1310
00:59:46,829 --> 00:59:44,619
called vof you know that's a Swedish

1311
00:59:49,739 --> 00:59:46,839
abbreviation so the channel is called

1312
00:59:52,949 --> 00:59:49,749
vof TV and you can find it there

1313
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:52,959
excellent vof TV a link of course in

1314
00:59:57,239 --> 00:59:55,450
this week's show notes well I think that

1315
00:59:58,859 --> 00:59:57,249
just about wraps up the show for this

1316
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:58,869
week once again thank you very much

1317
01:00:02,219 --> 01:00:00,640
pondus has been a lot of fun I really

1318
01:00:04,349 --> 01:00:02,229
enjoyed having you as a co-host again

1319
01:00:05,849 --> 01:00:04,359
folks because it's almost like you're in

1320
01:00:07,559 --> 01:00:05,859
the studio with me you're up there on

1321
01:00:09,630 --> 01:00:07,569
the monitor and I can see you and you

1322
01:00:12,569 --> 01:00:09,640
can you mean we're both speaking into

1323
01:00:14,339 --> 01:00:12,579
our respective microphones on the other

1324
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:14,349
side of the planet I mean it's hard to

1325
01:00:17,519 --> 01:00:16,690
find dad to imagine we could be further

1326
01:00:20,219 --> 01:00:17,529
apart

1327
01:00:23,130 --> 01:00:20,229
yes it's amazing it's amazing it's

1328
01:00:25,140 --> 01:00:23,140
really good technology here now either

1329
01:00:27,599 --> 01:00:25,150
I'm on my head or you're on your head

1330
01:00:29,549 --> 01:00:27,609
depending ah yes but I turned my camera

1331
01:00:32,459 --> 01:00:29,559
upside down so that you wouldn't have to

1332
01:00:36,269 --> 01:00:32,469
suffer through that I'm so grateful

1333
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:36,279
thank you very much Pontius and thank

1334
01:00:40,799 --> 01:00:38,650
you everybody for listening but for this

1335
01:00:48,099 --> 01:00:40,809
week this week this is Richard Saunders

1336
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:50,599
you've been listening to the skeptic

1337
01:01:00,200 --> 01:00:53,520
zone podcast please visit our website at

1338
01:01:03,700 --> 01:01:00,210
wwlp.com tax and to access the bat

1339
01:01:06,380 --> 01:01:03,710
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1340
01:01:09,650 --> 01:01:06,390
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1341
01:01:11,930 --> 01:01:09,660
on twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1342
01:01:15,319 --> 01:01:11,940
facebook page or leave a review on

1343
01:01:15,710 --> 01:01:15,329
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1344
01:01:21,609 --> 01:01:15,720
zone

1345
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:21,619
podcast is an independent production

1346
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:24,000
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1347
01:01:28,460 --> 01:01:26,130
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1348
01:01:30,310 --> 01:01:28,470
of Australian skeptics or any other

1349
01:01:41,599 --> 01:01:30,320
skeptical organization

1350
01:01:46,529 --> 01:01:45,029
wellnot pontus is hijacking the the end

1351
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:46,539
of the show folks welcome to the people

1352
01:01:50,219 --> 01:01:48,640
who listen after the music and quite a

1353
01:01:53,669 --> 01:01:50,229
lot of people do listen after the music

1354
01:01:55,169 --> 01:01:53,679
it's amazing I get emails from people

1355
01:01:57,719 --> 01:01:55,179
who playing the dice game saying I

1356
01:01:59,429 --> 01:01:57,729
missed it by one this week yeah I'm all

1357
01:02:00,989 --> 01:01:59,439
just looking forward to this so I think

1358
01:02:03,209 --> 01:02:00,999
we should do something a little bit

1359
01:02:06,169 --> 01:02:03,219
different this time since I'm here and I

1360
01:02:10,729 --> 01:02:06,179
have a possibility to to mess things up

1361
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:10,739
I don't have a fancy dice with aliens or

1362
01:02:16,349 --> 01:02:13,119
20 sides or anything it's just a normal

1363
01:02:20,279 --> 01:02:16,359
one just a one two six-sided well a

1364
01:02:23,099 --> 01:02:20,289
six-sided die yeah so I thought I'm

1365
01:02:25,399 --> 01:02:23,109
gonna spice it up another way you're

1366
01:02:28,979 --> 01:02:25,409
gonna play for money Richard this time

1367
01:02:31,620 --> 01:02:28,989
mm-hmm so I have this normal dice and I

1368
01:02:34,019 --> 01:02:31,630
have six European sceptic points lined

1369
01:02:36,539 --> 01:02:34,029
up in front of me in an order that is

1370
01:02:38,819 --> 01:02:36,549
predetermined but you can't see which

1371
01:02:41,939 --> 01:02:38,829
they are self numbered the the coins

1372
01:02:44,729 --> 01:02:41,949
from 1 to 6 and you're going to bet on

1373
01:02:46,919 --> 01:02:44,739
one coin and then the the the dice is

1374
01:02:49,139 --> 01:02:46,929
going to choose a coin and we'll see if

1375
01:02:52,409 --> 01:02:49,149
you get the right one and then I will

1376
01:02:54,599 --> 01:02:52,419
also flip it and see and you will have

1377
01:02:58,169 --> 01:02:54,609
to say if it comes up heads or tails

1378
01:03:00,269 --> 01:02:58,179
wow this is interesting variation yes I

1379
01:03:02,849 --> 01:03:00,279
hope it's not too complicated here but I

1380
01:03:07,349 --> 01:03:02,859
have let me tell you what what the coins

1381
01:03:11,039 --> 01:03:07,359
I have here I have 1 cent 2 cent and 5

1382
01:03:13,979 --> 01:03:11,049
cent and a 50 cent coin here's a 1 2 5

1383
01:03:17,999 --> 01:03:13,989
and 50 and then I have a 1 euro coin and

1384
01:03:20,039 --> 01:03:18,009
a 2 euro coin so tell me Richard which

1385
01:03:23,159 --> 01:03:20,049
one do you select and of course people

1386
01:03:25,859 --> 01:03:23,169
at home can play along ok we have a one

1387
01:03:29,399 --> 01:03:25,869
cent to cent 5 cent 50 cent and 1 euro

1388
01:03:31,769 --> 01:03:29,409
into euro yeah 1 euro I'll choose the 1

1389
01:03:34,620 --> 01:03:31,779
euro 1 euro not going for the top but

1390
01:03:39,149 --> 01:03:34,630
still a sizable amount of money here

1391
01:03:41,699 --> 01:03:39,159
yeah so let me roll the dice ha that's

1392
01:03:44,159 --> 01:03:41,709
very interesting so I've selected all

1393
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:44,169
the quarter the dice I selected one coin

1394
01:03:47,879 --> 01:03:45,609
but I'm going to keep you in suspense

1395
01:03:51,049 --> 01:03:47,889
for a little bit this is now

1396
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:51,059
Schrodinger's corn for you Richard so

1397
01:04:01,830 --> 01:03:54,970
tell me heads or tails

1398
01:04:07,530 --> 01:04:01,840
oh okay heads oh and I'll do that again

1399
01:04:10,530 --> 01:04:07,540
this is hard to do and it is heads it is

1400
01:04:14,010 --> 01:04:10,540
heads unfortunately it's the two euro

1401
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:14,020
coin it's not the 1 euro coin so you you

1402
01:04:21,810 --> 01:04:16,330
lost this time but maybe we'll try it

1403
01:04:25,020 --> 01:04:21,820
again another time so all the people at

1404
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:25,030
home who who imagined that you would

1405
01:04:29,790 --> 01:04:27,970
roll for the 2 euro coin you've got it

1406
01:04:32,190 --> 01:04:29,800
this week and if you imagine that and

1407
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:32,200
you imagine heads afterwards well done

1408
01:04:39,420 --> 01:04:35,200
yes I think there should be some it's

1409
01:04:40,980 --> 01:04:39,430
the odds are not extremely high but so

1410
01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:40,990
it's somebody will work it out and let